This interview between John Fox and Jerrod Amir Shakir is taken from the essay John wrote in September discussing Cultivating Goodwill and Democracy Through Poetry and Poem-Making, an in-person poetic medicine retreat offered in August, 2024. John spoke with three of the participants from the two-day event to allow them to share their personal experiences of the impact of working together in community to listen, write, and bear witness to themselves and to each other. You can read John's full essay with all three interviews included here.
“Where you see wrong or inequality or injustice, speak out, because this is your country. This is your democracy. Make it. Protect it. Pass it on.”
Thurgood Marshall, Supreme Court Justice
from 1978 University of Virginia commencement speech
John Fox: Could you talk about what your experience of the retreat was?
Jerrod Amir Shakir: What I took away from it in terms of cultivating goodwill and good faith in democracy, it was people coming together, community coming together in good faith. The democracy is that we all had equal say and were on equal footing in what we were doing together. If you wanted to participate in the exercises, you could share, and if you did not want to, you did not have to. That is important. People had the right to use their voice how they saw fit.
That is what democracy is built on.
The healing element with the poetry—that was just as important to me—using poetry as a means of release and mental health advocacy. It is a very important part to have that self-expression and be able to release anything that you may be dealing with, something that is in your heart, on your mind, that is weighing on you. Basically, that is what I was able to do that weekend.
The poem I wrote I have since performed it a couple of times and people seemed to enjoy it. I liked performing it. It feels freeing to me to have that level of self-expression. People understanding. Me able to release what I was dealing with.
People may not realize that in the poem I was responding to numerous things that people were saying to me—but from the outside looking in—it just looks like I am going off on somebody. I am definitely going off on somebody—but it wasn’t anything that wasn’t unprovoked. That is what my piece did. It was interesting to perform it. There are people in the retreat I have been in community with many times—Mr. Greg Groves, Erika Brown and Tony Vento—but they may not have seen that side of me.
Ms. Gillian Johns, who attended the retreat, we are both part of the Cleveland Association of Black Storytellers—and she may have seen how I can be with my art and how passionate I am. I am aware that it may be too much for some people. That is another thing I am dealing with—how I express myself. Is this too much? Yet, I find it is better I do express myself honestly, and that people will accept that and see me for me.
The retreat was a freeing experience. I love a good writing prompt. There is a little bit of…”Hmmm! I wonder who is going to write what at the end?” I think I should have one of the best because I trust my artistic abilities at this point. It was great to test myself.
JF: Please say that again—to test yourself?
JAS: Yes, test myself, and I can also attack myself. Some of us are our own worst critics at times. This was freeing. I felt a release and got it out of me.
JF: Could you say something more about the word release? You are not only getting it out, but you are getting it clarified.
JAS: Yes, that is a great point. When I speak about release, we talk about it abstractly and metaphorically, but these things can literally weigh on our hearts and our minds.
Literally these things were weighing on my heart and mind. Especially and unfortunately because of the influence of alcohol that I had that weekend. Friday night I went out to the local watering hole and stayed too late. That was probably why I was a little late Saturday morning if I am being honest and transparent.
Because alcohol is a depressant, and the things I was dealing with in that state that my piece speaks to as well. I say:
You didn't hear the fork tongued whispers that spoke to me..like the whiskey...
My piece embodies that. It is about things that were going on at that watering hole. That was weighing on me. Writing the poem is like a body-builder lifting a weight—you finally get it off of you—you pull it off your chest. You finish with your set. Everyone who witnesses you are your spotters.
JF: Were we a spotter to your self-honesty?
JAS: That is exactly what it was. I say vulnerability is one of my superpowers. It is a superpower because it allows other people to be vulnerable as well. To see someone like me who you may not think is vulnerable, who has that sort of introspection. I get to display that then people say, “Oh wow! This is a safe space. If he can be vulnerable, I should be able to.”
It is easy to do something. But how often do we go back to re-evaluate and say was that the right thing to do? Even me being honest about saying, “Hey, I was late on Saturday morning because I was hung-over!”
Luckily this has been a dry month for me. I have not been using or abusing alcohol. I have so much going on that I want to accomplish, and I want to accomplish it for me.
I am not sure that my talents and abilities are God-given. I have nurtured this writing gift. I have nurtured this gift since I was a kid. I started when I was twelve or thirteen, and at thirty-seven should be confident to go and do this.
JF: Jerrod, every moment is new! Everything you write is new!
JF Note: This is the poem that Jerrod wrote and spoke into our circle. "And what if my words…" was the prompt:
"So..And, What If?..."
And what if..my words...
were the only ones you heard?
not listening close enough to hear they were..
a reply, rebuttal, resistance...
'cause my voice carries easily..
the projecting of an M.C.
Ask why I'm so firey, this is big Aries energy!
Grew up bullied, I was the only one defending me.
You didn't hear the fork-tongued whispers that spoke to me..like the whiskey...
or the devil on my left shoulder daring you to knock the stick off! So now I have a chip there..
but if you could only hear wtf they said to me first..
say it's childish like "they started it!" or "me first!"
but it was just my reply, rebuttal, resistance...
not listening..
but my words.. were the only ones you heard.
Jerrod Amir Shakir
Jerrod Amir Shakir is a dedicated community organizer and activist based in Cleveland, OH. He currently works with Bike Cleveland as a Community Organizer, focusing on developing and supporting biking and walking infrastructure improvements in the city. Shakir collaborates with local community groups, businesses, and elected officials to promote safer and more inclusive urban environments. Before joining Bike Cleveland, Shakir served as a Grassroots Organizer and Certified Health Insurance Navigator with UHCAN Ohio, where he advocated for healthcare accessibility and equity. He has also been involved with the Freedom BLOC as a digital organizer and social media marketer and has worked as a digital archivist for Cleveland Votes. Shakir is an advocate for reparatory justice and mental health. He expresses his artistic side through poetry and hip-hop music, blending passions for storytelling and community upliftment. .
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